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DNC Rules Committee Member from California Anticipates Florida and Michigan Delegates Issue to Be Resolved at May 31 Meeting

Garry Shay, Chair of the California Democratic Party Rules Committee and a member of the Democratic National Committee Rules Committee, talking with fellow Superdelegate and DNC Member who also sits on the DNC Rules Committee, Alice Huffman, at California Democratic Council Dinner Before remarks
By Frank D. Russo
Yesterday evening, I moderated an after dinner panel discussion amongst eight California Superdelegates, including two who are uncommitted, at the annual California Democratic Council Convention in Fresno. Despite being in session for a dozen or so hours before the dinner event kicked off, the room was packed with CDC delegates who did not tire and stayed for an hour and a half to ask questions and hear from those on the dais. I’ll have a fuller report later on the many interesting comments of these grassroots Democrats, all of whom were elected to their positions, and are not going to the Denver Convention because of appointment or their position.
What caught my ear were the comments made by Garry Shay, a well versed and insightful California Democratic Party Rules Chair and a member of the important Democratic National Committee Rules Committee, who said he anticipates the May 31, 2008 meeting of this body to be important and for it to resolve questions surrounding the seating of delegates from Florida and Michigan.
Shay is known as a straight shooter who is well versed in rules and chooses his words carefully. He announced around the time of the California primary that he was supporting Hillary Clinton. He, as well as the other seven superdelegates on the panel--and another who had to leave early but spoke to the crowd--had some interesting things to say about what this means. But Shay’s analysis of the Florida and Michigan situation was very interesting.
He was more predictive of the Florida delegation, which he said, based on putting bits and pieces of information together, would be seated, each with a one-half vote. He said the resolution of the Michigan delegates, where all Democratic candidates except Hillary Clinton, took their names off the ballot at the request of the Democratic National Party, was “anybody’s guess.” But being told to arrive a day early and to schedule plane flights coming home a day after the meeting, he said that there will be a big push to resolve these issues before the convention. The Rules and Bylaws Committee has jurisdiction on this issue until June 29. If it goes to the convention, it will then be handled by the credentials committee.
Here is what Shay had to say, verbatim:
Question: Are any of the superdelegates on the credentials committee and do you have any idea what will happen with Florida and Michigan?
[Crowd laughter with someone shouting out “touché!]
Shay: Well actually the gentleman is correct. The question is the credentials committee if you are going down to the convention to determine this. But both Alice (Huffman) and I sit on the Rules Committee and we have jurisdiction over this matter until June 29th. And on May 31st, there’s a meeting of the Rules and Bylaws Committee in Washington, D.C.
I anticipate that this matter is going to be fleshed out there between all the parties concerned. I think the party is looking at this as being a very important meeting of the Rules and Bylaws Committee, because this is the first time that I can ever recall getting a memo from them saying that we want you to fly in the night before and not making your plans for leaving until the day after. So they intend to resolve the matter at that time.
Currently, the Rules and Bylaws Committee position on this is that both states are stripped of both of their pledged delegates and their superdelegates. Challenges were filed by both Florida and Michigan members, challenging that decision on two different grounds. One of them was whether or not the superdelegates should be seated from those states because the charter of the Democratic Party says that the superdelegates shall be delegates to the convention. The other was whether or not it should be a 100% penalty or a 50% penalty.
So those are issues that are going to be coming before the Rules and Bylaws Committee once again. And also complicating the matter with regard to Michigan is the fact that not all candidates’ names were on the ballot.
What I anticipate will happen is that—and I have not received any communications from anybody, this is just my own thoughts on the matter—that the superdelegates will likely be seated from both states. That Florida will be seated with a half delegate for each pledged delegate based upon the January results. The concept there being that there must be some punishment for violating the rules, and at the same time, excluding those two states is very difficult, and as far as Michigan is concerned, that’s anybody’s guess. I have no idea what is going to happen with them.
[Fellow panel member says to Shay “Explain why.”]
Well, there are a lot of things that happened with Michigan. First of all, the primary law was challenged as to its constitutionality and it was thrown out. So, there’s no law supporting the Michigan primary.
There’s the fact that Hillary Clinton’s name and the uncommitted slate was the only thing that was on the ballot in Michigan because the Democratic National Committee asked the other candidates to withdraw their names from the ballot. So, here you have the institution itself asking people to pull their names off the ballot.
[Fellow panel member says: “Not the other ones; they asked all of them.]
All of them, yes. That’s what--I don’t know what I just said-But, OK, that’s what I thought I said.
In any event, and you also have the uncommitted slate on the ballot—you have an uncommitted slate on the ballot and, you know, one of the proposals that came forward that I’ve seen is: Why not give half of the delegation to Clinton and half of it to Obama and that way it won’t make any difference and people can be seated. Well, what do you do with the fact that there was an uncommitted delegation that got votes and is entitled to delegates? I think that one is a whole big mess.
Comments
The rules are clear. Clinton chose not to play by them after agreeing initially to them. She should not gain advantage from a skewed scenario. Michigan - clearly she left her name on the ballot when all others removed theirs. Is she the only deaf candidate? Florida - no one campaigned, and this severely disadvantaged anyone newer to the voters. Not open contests -either of them.
The only fair way to go in both states is to split the delegates reflecting the percentage of the national popular vote received. Delegates would not be allowed to switch in the first or later ballots at the convention unless the candidates personally release them. In other words - The penalty for those states who broke DNC rules originally agreed to by all candidates is that they are not in control of their delegate votes. They are seated, so the voters are represented. Their selection process was compromised, and the DNC must enforce the rules that HILLARY AGREED TO.
The net impact does not change the fact that Obama still wins - popular vote, delegates, super delegates. The margin of victory will remain as it is at the end of all the primaries. Thus, shenanigans will not impact the outcome of the primary process. The state party organizations are responsible for this mess, and Hillary for trying to manipulate broken rules.
Solve it. Leave no doubt that there is no wriggle room to have this dangle any longer. Be sure the voters understand that their state party leaders are to blame for this mess - not the DNC or candidates who followed the rules.
Posted by: Dorothy Roessler at May 14, 2008 10:09 PM
Dear Member of DNC Rules Committee:
Count all the votes. That's all we voters want. We are tired of maneuvering, manipulating, punishing some states for perceived infractions while another got "approval". Just...Count all the votes.
Thank you.
Kathy Derouin
kcbadgers@everestkc.net
Posted by: Kathy Derpiom at May 20, 2008 08:00 PM
Obama took his name off the ballot in Michigan, but told voters to vote "undecided" which would give him the vote. Both Obama and Clinton were on the ballot in Florida - a state which does not have its had buried in the sand as some would try to have us think, they did know of Obama - by the time Florida's primary came around, he was already a household name - ask his friends at MSNBC and CNN! Obama also ran television ads in Florida - Hillary Clinton did not! That was against the rules! You want to talk about abiding by the rules, then you should talk about both candidates abiding by all the rules! The other states that pushed up their primary and caucus dates should also be punished! Quit trying to make it out that Hillary Clinton has been the bad guy all along - Obama broke the rules by advertising in Florida and by telling Michigan voters that if they wanted to vote for him to vote "undecided"! He campaigned in both states - Hillary Clinton did not! Obama wasn't interested in Florida and Michigan until he realized that he needed them!
Posted by: susiewat at May 21, 2008 11:39 AM
I'm sorry to advise you that Hillary's name was not the only name on the ballot in Michigan, Dennis Kucinich left his name on with uncommitted as well. Obviously you were misinformed about the DNC telling all candidates to remove their names from the ballot. They only agreed not to campaign in those states and it was the RNC that moved the date up in Florida along with the Republican Gov. Charlie Crist, the Democrats had no choice in the matter.
Posted by: jcless at May 21, 2008 07:49 PM
I voted in the Florida primary because there was a very important property tax amendment on the ballot; however, I am sure many people in other counties in Florida did not even bother to go to the polling stations because we were told our votes would not count. In my opinion, much of the blame for this debacle can be "credited" to the Republican legislators and Governor Crist.
Hillary Clinton agreed that Florida and Michigan would not count. So why didn't she have her name removed from the Michigan ballot? It appears she thinks she should get all the delegates from both states; what about Barack Obama? His name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan. Now that she is losing, she wants to change all the rules. She'll do anything and everything to try to TAKE the nomination. Does she think "hard-working, white, blue-collar" Americans who voted for her are the only people whose votes should count? What about the remaining Americans all across the country who voted for Barack Obama; are they not hard-working Americans; do these votes mean nothing? Hillary's argument just doesn't cut it with me.
Posted by: Laura at May 22, 2008 01:32 AM
"where all Democratic candidates except Hillary Clinton, took their names off the ballot at the request of the Democratic National Party"
You are publishing misinformation as if it were fact and doing a disservice to anyone that reads this article.
'All' the other candidates did not take their name s off; Clinton, Kucinich, Dodd and Gravel remained on the ballot.
Also the DNC did NOT formally request that the names be removed; they had nothing to do with it. The names were removed, or not, for political reasons. Some knew they would not do well and chose to not gain a 'loss', the others chose not to 'snub' the Michigan voters and/or had other more obscure reasons.
These things may seem unimportant to you but they imply deceit on Sen. Clinton's part where none existed. And when they are read and repeated ad nauseam they become just another way the 'voluntarily uninformed' make choices.
Posted by: beadfulheart at May 25, 2008 05:03 PM
I have been a staunch Democrat for as long as I can remember. I believe in the principles and ideals that this party represents. However, this debacle in Michigan (and Florida) has me rethinking my allegiance. Isn't one of the main principles of the Democratic Party to represent the "common man" and give everyone a voice? Why then am I being punished (disenfranchised) for something over which I had ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL? It is wrong and not fair, and if the DNC does anything other than give the nominees the number of delegates that were voted for BY THE PEOPLE in Michigan and Florida (names on the ballot notwithstanding), they are not only doing a huge disservice to the voters in those states, they are being hypocritical as well. If the "order" of the primaries is so gosh-darn important, then have all of the primaries on the same day! Not only would that eliminate situations like this, it would save *a ton* of time and money. Please restore the delegates to the nominees as voted by the people of Michigan and Florida, or I (and I would guess others as well) will be looking for a new political group with which to affiliate.
Posted by: Carolyn at May 28, 2008 09:24 AM
I have been reading and watching alot of this on television and the internet. I am one of the Florida voters who took the time and respect to cast a ballot. I did my civic duty today and went to my local Supervisor of Elections office and changed my party affiliation to Republican. The reason behind this is that I know that the Republican Legislature and Republican Governor set the date for the Democratic Primary in Florida. The DNC decided to punish the voters in Florida for something we had no control of and when called to answer for their actions, decided to give only half of the votes back. They then decided to give delegate votes to a candidate that was not even on the ballot. I guess that if Mrs. Clinton had advised her followers to vote undecided she would have been better off. I was not sure of whom I would have voted for in the November election but I am sure now. Unlike the superdelegates on the DNC, I did not have my mind made up before I went into the voting booth. I have done my homework, unlike most of the new registered voters who will vote blindly for someone they know nothing about except for his race. I cannot vote for someone who is an associate of home grown terrorists and supports groups such as HAMAS and other terrorist groups. We all need to pray for America because we are going to need it come November 2008.
Posted by: wade sams at June 2, 2008 09:35 PM
THIS IDEA THAT BARACK RAN ADS IN FLORIDA IS A BLATANT LIE. MY FAMILY LIVES THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND HE DIDN'T RUN ONE AD HERE!!WE ARE A VERY ACTIVE DEMOCRATIC FAMILY APPROXIMATELY OVER 200 OLD ENOUGH TO VOTE. OVER 400 STRONG AT OUR FAMILY REUNIONS.WE PARTICIPATE IN EVERY ELECTION BUT DIDN'T PARTICIPATE IN THIS ONE.WE ALSO TAKE APPROX 100 ELDER VOTERS TO THE POLLS FROM NURSING HOMES & THIS TIME NOONE PARTICIPATED.NOT EVERYONE HAS CABLE AND LOCAL MEDIA SHOWED VERY LITTLE ABOUT OBAMA.ALL THEY SAID WAS IT WOULDN'T COUNT. YOU ONLY NEEDED TO GO TO THE POLLS IF YOU WERE GOING TO BE IMPACTED BY PROPERTY TAXES IF YOU DON'T HAVE "SAVE OUR HOMES". WHEN HE FINALLY SHOWED UP IN MAY PEOPLE HAD NOW LEARNED ABOUT HIM AND WERE EXCITED. AFTER HIS SPEECH THEY WERE VERY ANGRY THAT THEY DIDN'T GO T0 THE POLLS BECAUSE OF BEING TOLD IT WOULDN'T COUNT.THIS ELECTION NOT ONE FAMILY MEMBER WORKED THE POLLS. WE WERE DEFINITELY DISENFRANCHISED AND ARE DISGUSTED.OUR VOTE WAS TAKEN AWAY FROM US BY ALL THE CANDIDATES WHO SIGNED THIS PLEDGE NOT TO CAMPAIGN AND AGREED THAT THIS STATE WOULDN'T COUNT. NOW HILLARY WANTS TO COUNT BECAUSE SHE IS BEHIND!! I AM RAGING MAD THAT MY OPTIONS WERE TAKEN AWAY FROM ME BY DECEPTION!!!
Posted by: They8datruth at June 5, 2008 09:53 PM
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