California Police Get an Important New Crime-fighting Tool

Apparently policy makers don't understand that criminals are opportunists. Nor do they recognize that many are not stupid.

Is ‘Microstamping’ an effective ‘crime fighting’ tool? Perhaps, but isn’t it more likely a method for creating reasonable doubt in a jury trial?

Criminals can easily pick up brass at a range and sprinkle it at crime scene. Not only will it confuse the police to go after honest people, but now is evidence for their defense at trial if caught. Now you’ve created reasonable doubt.

Criminals can easily file down a firing pin, or replace it altogether. Or simply use a revolver.

Is it reasonable to assume that ‘sprinkled’ brass, identified at a crime scene, will result in a phone call from the police? Let us hope its only a phone call.

Or is it more likely that the swat will kick in your door late at night to find you? Do regular citizens need that harassment?

In my mind that makes for a more dangerous situation for honest gun owners, and the police.

The law may have been well intended, but is simple harassment for those who own firearms.

Law seems to have a few flaws:

1. Its for guns sold after Jan 2010, most guns used in crimes are older models often 2 or 3 generations away from the original buyer. It may be 2017-20 before this has any real impact IF no one modifies the gun in the meantime.

2. Guns are like cars, they have mechanical parts that are fairly easy to take apart and replace with new or after market parts. Law applies to new guns being sold doesn't say after you buy it you can't take it apart and put new parts on it. I just read the law and I might have missed it but I don't believe there is any prohibition against modifying the gun parts?

3. I think people are being misled about bullets being stamped, its just the casings that can be picked up and taken with you when you go.

I think this will have little effect on solving crime and will also have little effect on gun owners. Its much to do over nothing.

So if I were a bad guy you could tell who I took the gun from. Bad guys can live with that. So, bad guys could also get spent casings from a shooting range and REALLY screw up an investigation. Cool. Glock is not going to sell guns in California after this goes into effect. Cool, stolen glocks from out of state will let the bad guys out gun the cops. That works.
Sleep well.

Dr. Dix,

Thank you and your associates for being useful idiots.

Sincerely,
California's Criminals

Kudos to Gov. Schwarzenegger for defying the gun lobby and giving law enforcement the BEST current technology available to solve gun crimes. Some of these arguments from the gun nuts are absolutely laughable. Criminals collecting spent cartridges at shooting ranges and then seeding crime scenes with them after cleaning up their own cartridges? Yeah, right, that wouldn't look suspicious at the range. And no crimes are committed in the heat of the moment, right? I would hesitate about calling people "idiots" when these are the best arguments you have to hide the fact that you dislike this law simply because you are a paranoid lunatic who wants the freedom to stockpile arms against our own government. Here's to common sense and the VICTIMS AND SURVIVORS OF GUN VIOLENCE winning a wonderful, historic victory in California.

If people with titles before or after their names feel good about this law it is OK. When SHTF it wont make a lot of difference. Welcome to the real working world .Get out of your ivory tower. If the republic of Kalfornia leads the rest of the nation we are reall in deep dodo !!!

If people with titles before or after their names feel good about this law it is OK. When SHTF it wont make a lot of difference. Welcome to the real working world .Get out of your ivory tower. If the republic of Kalfornia leads the rest of the nation we are reall in deep dodo !!!

If people with titles before or after their names feel good about this law it is OK. When SHTF it wont make a lot of difference. Welcome to the real working world .Get out of your ivory tower. If the republic of Kalfornia leads the rest of the nation we are reall in deep dodo !!!

Freedom4all: Wow, actually a pro-gun control post.

If you're thinking that the pro-gun crowd is a bunch of lunatics, or red necks for that matter, you might want to re-consider. FACT: MORE people engage in the shooting sports than baseball, football, and soccer combined.

And if you think someone won't pick up brass, you're nuts. Try doing a search for firearm brass on ebay. FYI - Many poeple I know reload ammunition for better consistency. It is common to see people pick up brass. And ranges in general pick it up and sell it.

In fact, it sounds like a great business venture to start. Maybe, I'll start selling used imprinted brass on ebay. Shoot, open the bag sprinkling brass, chuckle, and walk away.

Assuming anyone will remember, I look forward to 2015 or thereabouts, to see who is stupid.

I predict outlaws will have a new business line, selling spare parts to replace those used to microstamp, and that no convictions will turn on microstamped brass and very few leads will take police to the person pulling the trigger.

The ease of disabling the stamping mechanism is not a "smear" to anyone who understands rudimentary metalwork and how guns function. It is a technical question. Like gravity. Those who emote rather than think don't get it, of course.

Hope is not a strategy for progress, but it does power bad public policy and high self-approval ratings for some people.

I would like to thank Brady and MMM for giving criminals the tools to pass the blame onto the innocent with this law. We now will get away with murder more now than in the past. We hope in the future you help inact more gun control so our victims are unarmed. An armed populace is a nusance and makes our jobs harder. The sooner guns are banned we can have free reign of the streets.

Oh yeah and don't forget because you helped disarm this state we won't break into your homes. Your wrong! We want your stuff too. We want to own your streets and neighborhoods.

Again thanks for the new laws. We are now really free to do what we want.

Sincerely,
Gang Members of California.

I will quote your article here sir.
"Even though microstamping is no threat to law-abiding gun owners, the gun lobby mounted an intensive misinformation campaign."

If you think even fopr a minute I believe a single word of your article sir. I would not trust one law that infringes on the rights guarenteed by the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights!

In no way does this law constitute the consent of the governed. I sure as hell do not want it. I'm sure the criminal element of society is happy. They now know they have friends in government that will help disarmt theor potential victims.

In no way do I have anymore trust in the government of this state after this legislative year. I know the Brady Campaign and MMM are cheering their victory at this one more chip at the Second Amendment.

Sir I do not believe that that this law will help law enforcement solve one crime. It will more than likely accomplish what Brady Campaign and MMM and other groups want. They want no more guns sales in this state. Next is confiscation. If you tell me this is not their goal or yours. I'm calling you and them a liar plain and simple.

This will have even less effect on crime than did the Maryland Cartridge Case database, which is supposed to allow any brass left at the crime scene to be immediately tied to the gun that fired it. To date, this scheme (which has cost tens, if not hundreds, of millions) has not resulted in a single criminal being charged.

The California scheme, criticised by independent studies as "Deeply flawed" will be just as ineffective. Believe it or not, criminals do not use guns that they have just bought in their own name; they use stolen guns, or guns that have illicitly changed hands numerous times. So, how does knowing who originally bought the firearm help?

Basically, this is just another scheme to harrass gun owners and make it difficult for them to exercise their rights.

Any guns that is on the approved list now can stay on the list forever as long as the company keeps paying the fee. This only affects new models that are made after 2010. This law does not require any models made before 2010 to be compliant. This does nothing but will make gun companies not sell any newer models to CA. I doubt they will even retool their machine to implement this technology because nobody in CA will want to buy it. I sure won't and I will just keep buying existing models. This is waste of tax payers money.

You anti-gunnies are so cute when you're misguided. This is legislation that's drafted on a conceptual foundation of sand.

Look up 2 things in the text of the law:

The microstamping tech shall be "unencumbered by any patent restrictions."

"The microscopic array of characters required by this section shall not be considered the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number, or other mark of identification, including any distinguishing number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice, within the meaning of Sections 12090 and 12094."

In about 8 years, then, I'll buy myself a nice little file, since it's not illegal to remove the microstamping. Or maybe just use my Dremel.

Assuming, that is, the DOJ ever actually certifies anything...

Yeah, AngelDecoys, why don't you open up that new brass sprinkling business? By aiding and abetting criminals, you'll show everyone pretty clearly what your motivations are. It's like all those NRA videos we've seen that teach "law-abiding citizens" how to defeat current law enforcement techniques and technology. It's as clear as the light of day that you could not care less about the lives lost to gun violence in California or anywhere else.

To you, it's about a love of guns, your paranoia about our government, and your desire to stockpile arms to overthrow our government. There's a word for that in our Constitution: Treason.

Luckily, sane people who want to save lives and bring justice to victims and survivors of gun violence are running California, not you. I doubt that will change anytime soon. The thing that makes me smile is that this will help cement Schwarzenegger's legacy as a progressive politician willing to defy special interests to better the lives of his constituents. And a Republican nonetheless. Bravo California, the rest of the nation will soon be following.

Freedom4All:

Exactly which NRA videos are these?

Oh, I forgot, as an anti-gun person you believe that you are allowed to make up any kind of anti-gun crap you want to.

Freedom4All:

Exactly which NRA videos are these?

Oh, I forgot, as an anti-gun person you believe that you are allowed to make up any kind of anti-gun crap you want to - the end justifies the means.

The NRA just got 2 new members.

Freedom4all: I'm simply pointing out the obvious in what people will do. I’m sorry you can’t see that. You're being a bit overly emotional.

Go back and read my first post addressing your comments. Many people own firearms, many engage in the shooting sports. I have three degrees, teach college, and obviously am a gun enthusiast. So you see, I’m hardly a ‘gun nut’ or a ‘red neck.’

I would wager only a small percentage stockpile anything, let alone are worried about the government. And even if such individuals did, that’s their freedom to do so. I would wager that the numbers of ‘gun nuts’ is proportional to the number of people who won't eat meat or wear animal products.

Misrepresenting gun owners is nothing new, and does nothing for this discussion.

FYI - Like most people, I don’t wish to see people hurt by gun violence, but I also don't blame firearms for the actions bad people take using them. They are tools that save far more lives than they take every year. Nor do I have sympathy for those who value their own lives so little that they never learn how to protect themselves.

I do not blame the police when their job is NOT to protect me, my family, or my life. Again, just to be clear, their job is not to PROTECT you. Their job is to promote the general welfare (constitution), and to INVESTIGATE CRIME, not to prevent it. In fact, they are not even liable if they don’t show up.

Instead, I recognize that my life is solely my responsibility, and I therefore wish those who value their own lives, the same freedom in picking a ‘protection device’ of their choice.

This law, like the so-called ‘junk gun’ law (SB15) from years ago has not, and will not change that reality. Instead it is more likely that it will only limit choices for the poor, and possibly make it harder to convict offenders (who can create reasonable doubt by simply sprinkling brass at the crime scene).

There is nothing in "microstamping" that will identify "straw purchases'. You will not see a murder solved with this technology in your lifetime.

It makes me laugh to hear people demonize guns but mention nothing about the criminal. Guns do nothing without a PERSON pulling the trigger. I fear the criminal much more than the firearm.

As for me I shoot competitively, both IDPA and trap shooting events. I dont fear or want to overthrow the government. I dont stockpile ammo. I do love guns. I also love and respect my fellow shooters since most of the ones I know are level headed, responsible, educated, productive members of society who just want to protect their family and do what they love.

Similar technology has already been tried in other states and failed. (That's why you get the fired case with your new handgun). But liberal socialists don't care about facts. They beleive in their New World Order as if it were a religion. This law will never result in any criminal conviction, unless it's a conviction for somehow violating this new law. By the time it goes into effect, criminals will have figured out a way to defeat it. Those who believe criminals are stupid need only spend some time seeing what a prisoner can make out of paper, elastic, or string. This is simply one more step in the process to disarm law-abiding citizens.

Dr. Dix, I do not know what you have been smoking, but it can't be leagal. If you think that this will help solve any crimes committed with a firearm.

"when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"

in the end, this is nothing but a cheap shot at gun bans.

after all, not every single firearms manufacturer will have the resources to retool their factories.

eventually, they will just give up on the civilian market.

nice run-around on the 2nd amendment.

the brady bunch'ers should just stop calling themselves "against gun violence" and just call themselves "gun banners..."

I think the Governor should take equal or more blame on this. He did sign it. This from a man who's whole past success was based on firearms. He has been one disappointment after another. He is bought and paid for by law enforcement. He vetoed 3 key justice reform bills that protect citizens and signed this idiotic bill. He's lost his mind as far as I am concerned.

The assumption that this technology will be effective in identifying and prosecuting any criminal is based on several false premises.

1) That the technology is difficult or impossible to defeat. In reality, defeating microstamping does not require any special knowledge or skill. Anyone who can operate a Dremel or a benchgrinder can effectively 'obsolese' a microstamping semiautomatic pistol.

2) A criminal is unable to make a distinction between a revolver and a semiautomatic pistol. If "Joe Badguy" is concerned about being caught and cannot operate tools to modify a microstamping semi-automatic pistol, all he needs to really know is the difference between a wheel gun and everything else.

3) Criminals would participate by purchasing and registering microstamping semiautos. Revolvers and pre-microstamping autos do not microstamp, hence, criminals will naturally prefer revolvers or stolen guns than any gun that a criminal could purchase, assuming they would even try.

So- what we really have with this misguided legislation is a new, albeit very expensive and ineffective means to register a firearm's identity and regulate the lawful gunowner that it has been sold to.

Can this catch a criminal? Im not holding my breath.

The thing with microstamping is it only does something (in theory) after the shots are fired and someone is dead. The crime is already committed. I choose to defend myself so the cops wont be looking for microstamped shells. They will be looking for a criminal with a hole in him.

Freedom4All
"Some of these arguments from the gun nuts are absolutely laughable. Criminals collecting spent cartridges at shooting ranges and then seeding crime scenes with them after cleaning up their own cartridges? Yeah, right, that wouldn't look suspicious at the range."

As an enthusiast of shooting sports who happens to reload all my ammunition picking up brass at local shooting ranges isn't out of the ordinar at all. if you knew anything about the sport at all you'd know that. Replace the firing pin, no problem, grind them even easier. This technology only affects law abiding citizens who know what is now going to be stamped on there things and will follow laws because they are morally guided. NEWS FLASH; CRIMINALS DON"T FOLLOW LAWS! If you know that at every murder scene you're at you'd drop your drivers license wouldn't you stop to pick it up, unless if like most law breakers would, you know the license is a fake!
I am a californian native gun owner, and like the thinking behind the law, I have nothing to fear from this move, other than if someone finds my brass now im implicated. Luckily I take most of my brass,or all i can find. I have little chance of the issue, but this will only cost more to manufacture weapons, and cost taxpayer dollars to analyze this WORTHLESS technology.
As for anti- governmental gun hoarding pyscho comments did i mention i am an active duty air force member, whose entire job revolves around taking up arms in security of this gear but misguided state and its residents including those who label gun owners as militia member bent on destruction.. cough.. freedom4all..cough you're lucky to have us.

Dr. Dix,

If you read these posts, just wanted ot ask a quick question. What was your thesis on for your PhD? I tried to look it up but had no luck. Philosophy? Religion? Science?

Lastly, are you teaching currently, doing research, working on a book, or just working for MMM?

And just how am I supposed to implement this?

have you read the bill Mr. Dix? do you see the half dozen steps DOJ has to go through, many of which are outside our control, let alone unfunded, before this bill can be implemented?

its the perfect gun law! It does nothing. It will never do anything without a dozen more fix-it bills, a push in technology , and the complete collpase of patent law!

the best part is, there is NO data base to cross reference the DIFFERENT number on the microstamp from that which I am currently recording at transaction!HAHAHAHA!

oh well, we'll just have to use the one thousand guns grandfathered on the list and the hundreds to follow before 2010 or AFTER, given that it will not be in effect in 2010!

political perfection. The author will be out of office before tthe bill could ever hope of being untangled , but he'll still get the credit!

Kudos!!!

suckers!

Why don't we microstamp or RFID peoples instead? That way we'ze could track the criminals and not worry about the gun or spent shells. This sho would be a lot easier. With RFID we could have all sorts of valuable information like real name, criminal record, etc. No deceiving the police man. I gotta aks, what wrong wit that?

How much you guys want to bet that the individuals responsible for drafting and lobbying this legistlation are the same individuals who own stock in the companies that manufacture the lasers that will do the microstamping? I can almost guarantee that is the case. This is most likely a campaign that doesn't aim at decreasing violence as it is increasing the cost of a handgun to the consumer and thus lowering the number of individuals who can afford them. Not to mention that it's EASY to replace a firing pin. Know what I think I'll do? I'll start a business that manufactures firing pins that don't have a number microstamped in them, but the word "SUCKERS!!!" so that when law enforcement officers send the casings to the forensics lab the techs get a good laugh. Maybe I could sell designer firing pins, with skulls/crossbones or hearts or smiley faces. Hell, gang members (the majority of folks who will be replacing their firing pins come 2010) could even get their own gang signs printed there, so that the only trace would be to the gang, not the individual, adding street cred! Thanks, Brady/MMM for making me rich in my new line of work! BTW- A little lite reading for ya:
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2000/12/23/225251.shtml
...know your facts, sheeple!

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