WHEN ALL FIREARMS ARE ‘MICRO STAMPED’, ILLEGAL ALIENS WILL

Well this author does not have any practical experience with semi-automatic handguns.

Sanding at a firing line and firing 50 rounds you will be lucky to find 35 cases out of 50.

Why because semi-auto handguns do not throw their cases in a uniform pattern. Some cases will eject in front of the firing line, some to the side and some to the rear. Each semi-auto handgun will eject differently and there will be random fliers.

Now add to the fact that more than one shooter may be on the firing line and the contamination increases. The cases that fall in front of the firing line cannot be retrieved, because of range safety.

It is a very real possibility that cases will be lost or mixed with other cases or not be retrievable.

This is a very bad law and will result in innocent people having to defend their innocence even Law Enforcement Officers that use their personal firearm at a Public Range.

One by one I will address each of your arguments for microstamping and show you why none of your 1000 gun bills have worked so far.

1. In 2025 criminals will still steal the guns used in a crime, just talk with any cop and he will tell you they find stolen guns when they find thugs with firearms so in fact #1 is a crock.

2. 70% of firearms used in homicides are semi-auto? Where did you get your statitics? The firearms of choice are stolen pump action shotguns and replica handguns, then there are the semi-auto handguns...at least this is in LA county where crime is out of control yet they have the most gun laws.

3. Why do you keep pointing to lawfull gun owners as the ones who have to do anything? Your law was to go after the bad guys but so far you are addressing the lawful gun owners and the guys that would steal my empty cases at the range arent talked about yet those are the ones you say your going after.

4. My father had 4 shotguns stolen from him and the guy was caught yet only 1 was returned, are you saying my father should be looked at as the bad guy? Maybe you should put him under a hot lamp and make him sweat it even though he is your usual suspect (retired USAF and American airlines pilot).

5. All will, why do think they wont when everyone here who owns firearms told you it can be done?

6. The price of ammo has gone up %50 all reday and a magazine full of ammo can run $14 so the cost thing isnt really working your way is it? So if we raise it 50 cents the "poor" will buy food instead. See this is why your laws wont work and that is becauase you dont know anything about being "poor".

7. If you are reading this you already know #7 wasnt answered by the writer and Im just going to point that fact out for the rest of us " usual suspect".

8. You have taken more from lawfull gun owners than you have from the people who have broken the law by crossing the border without permission and given our jobs to the same people who you claim have rights in my country.

PS could you tell us where you get your statitics?

Bill,

It is so good to hear that you are so pro-business. I guess you would support Unocal subverting the CARB regulations too. Sticky government mandated patent monopolies and all. I didn't know that government mandated big business monopolies like ID Analytics' were Progressive... Whodathunk?

Let us parse some logic. If the crook is too stupid to use a file on the serial numbers or the breach face then I bet he's too dumb to not get caught. I mean, its not like the police have ballistic fingerprinting already... So really this is a bill after straw purchasers...

So, If I were to be a straw purchaser, I would be smart enough to realize there was a demand (at a price above retail - which I doubt) for guns I purchased at retail and resold to gang bangers. I, smart straw purchaser, would not be smart enough to use a file either... I guess I just really want to be caught....

Or maybe, criminals who have microstamped semi-autos don't care because the guns are stolen in the first place.

So, who is the guy dumb enough (and clean enough) to pass the NICS, have his serial number associated with his purchase information, and then commit a crime?

Publius

The Second Amendment needs to stand clear and unencumbered from ridiculous gun laws that will not stop crime. The Second Amendment is to protect our rights as citizens to bear arms. PERIOD. No touching it with bureaucratic red tape. EVER.

Extremists? What gives you the right to label me like that? I'm offended, i think i'm going to call the ACLU because you hurt my feelings! WAAA!

I'm an extremist because I fought to defend the Constitution of the United States? Let me guess, you arent an extremist because your cause is noble and just (so you think)and we are just evil gun toting 2A extremists. Hypocrite. You know what, lets do away with the bill of rights and just make stuff up to fit your ilk's agenda.

Maybe i'll write an article, I'll label it (in reference to you and your cohorts) "Bill of Rights infringers, infringe-Again".

A lot of these guns that are recovered from criminals have the serial number ground off. It takes a lot more effort to file the serial number off than it would take to file down a firing pin to get rid of the microstamping. Who does this guy think he's fooling?

[Legislation that would require “micro stamping” of cartridges from semi-automatic weapons (which typically eject their spent cartridges after firing) has engendered virulent criticisms from the usual suspects.]

Ah yes, let’s start with the tried and true classic, demean those you oppose by referring to then in a ‘cutesy’ manner to set the “oh, them again’ tone. The ‘Usual Suspects’, those citizens who ‘usually’ feel that the Constitution is the basis for our laws and that individual rights and responsibilities are the cornerstones of our Nation, would that be who your are referring to?

[Their basic argument is the same they have used for decades. They posit a brilliant criminal who will think of ways to evade the laws, leaving only us dumb honest people to get entangled in a “legal web”, unconstitutional bureaucracy and so on.]

So it is unfathomable by you that a criminal, who makes a career out of defying the law and avoiding the Police might be just a bit smarter than the potted plant in your office?
Frankly I think the ‘basic argument’ that criminals have no intent to get caught and will endeavor not to is a valid one. What is the rate of arrest and conviction in most major cities? 90%? 70%? What was that? Lower? 50%? 40%? Lower still? How can this be? Those criminals are simple fools, barely able to breathe without mechanical help!? Are you actually telling us that the Police Departments in our major cities are so inept and so ineffective that a collection of simpletons can outsmart them? Simply stunning.
You characterization of the law abiding citizen that most 2nd Amendment supporters concern themselves with as ‘dumb honest people’ is very telling. I suppose they should all be glad that someone of your obvious intellect is there to tell them what is best for them.

[Well, maybe criminals aren’t as ingenious as these soldiers of the 2nd amendment.]
Or perhaps neither of the above are as foolish and stupid as you wish to portray

[Let’s look at their arguments.]
Oh yes please, lets.

[1. Criminals will use guns without microstamping! Sure, initially, but by 2025 all semi’s will have microstamping. As will all ammunition. Maybe they’ll police their brass. Maybe some won’t. Maybe some dumb crooks will be caught that aren’t caught now?]

So by 2025 all the firearms that exist today will have simply vanished, as will have the means to remove any ‘stamping device’? No offense but your lack of knowledge of firearms is starting to show.
I would guess you are not aware that rifles and handguns from as far back as WWI are still readily available. So your target date for a 100% arrest rate is about 75 years off.
And again this is all dependent on your supposition that our woefully simpleminded criminal doesn’t pick up a paper or read a book. A rather tenuous thing to hang the safety of mankind on isn’t it?

[2.Revolvers don’t eject cartridges. Yes, and don’t fire as quickly as semi’s. That’s probably why semi’s are the weapon of choice in 70% of the homicides? So killers revert to six shooters and some people live. What’s wrong with that?]

Again I must ask, do you not feel that you should make some minor attempt to familiarize yourself with your subject matter before offering your opinions to the world?
A revolver and a self-loading pistol both fire once per trigger pull and only as fast as the user can manipulate the trigger. In fact a gentleman using a revolver holds the current speed shooting record.
More appalling is your acceptance of the loss of life to a revolver just because some people get to live. What a disturbing insight in to your psyche.

[3. They’ll just collect casings at the range and throw them on the ground at the crime scene to fool the police. So let’s require shooters at the range to police their brass. (We all will after that knock on the door informing us that one of our casings was found as a result of a CSI)]

Ahh, so the onus is placed on the law abiding citizen to ‘prove his innocence’ rather than on the State to prove guilt. Police your brass lest the State decide you are guilty.
We can’t put any undo expectation on the criminal, that would violate his/her rights but we can heap multiple requirements on those who obey the laws, of what value are their rights?

[4. Criminals use stolen guns anyway. (or so second amendment advocates claim). Well some do. Some also purchase guns from legal owners without going through the necessary transfer procedures. Micro stamping would allow the police to trace the weapon back to its’ original owner. That person might claim the weapon was ‘stolen’ – but how many ‘stolen’ weapons will we allow him? If nothing else police could check out crimes in the area of the ‘stolen’weapon.]

Again, your lack of familiarity with what you are discussing is showing through.
A criminal buying a gun from another person is already guilty of several crimes and so is the other individual. If these laws are not enough to stop them why will this one be any different?
But is that really a concern? Are laws like this really intended to ‘solve crimes’? Of course not, they are intended as one more hurdle for those who obey the law and one more thing to ignore for those who do not.

[And we would have an empirical base from which to judge how common it is to have guns ‘stolen’, whether there isn’t a pattern of negligence on the part of the ‘crime victim’ requiring further storage, safety regulations, And so on.]

Again, see the response to point three, let us burden and impose more requirements on the law abiding. That will make us all safer.

[5. Criminals will file off the microstamping. Some will. But many people turn to crime because of their unwillingness to work. Let’s not postulate criminals that are not only clever but also hardworking as a rationale to oppose reasonable efforts to restrict the use of guns in crime.]

Yes, let’s not consider that criminals are smart enough to evade capture, that would require us to face reality and admit some very uncomfortable truths!
After all, no criminal files the serial number off of a firearm, do they? No criminal puts different plates on a stolen car do they? They don’t take the time and effort to acquire or fabricate phony IDs do they?
Of course not! That’s all Hollywood and fantasy stuff!
How dare we consider reality in our efforts to curtail the rights of the law abiding!?

[6. This will raise the cost of ammo by as much as 50 cents, making it impossible for any but the rich to be shooters. Yeah, the rich and the brilliant criminals. The “poor” use their discretionary income to buy food not firearms.]

Who among society has the most need to defend themselves? Those who live in ‘good’ neighborhoods behind security gates and private guards or those who live in the high crime area people like you tell your driver to avoid after sundown?
Again I am astonished by you implication that the ‘poor’ are not deserving of a basic right to self-defense!
So how much should one make before they start to consider the lives of their spouse and children to be valuable enough to warrant defending?
How much should one make before they are granted the rights delineated in the Constitution?

[7. This whole effort is a nothing more than a political play through contribution by the “micro stamping industry”. Actually, it is a play by gun manufacturers who want to make your current firearm illegal so that you have to buy an expensive replacement and can’t resell your now obsolete weapon legally. Well, you can always find an illegal buyer – then claim it was ‘stolen’.]

Actually the political play discussed by 2nd Amendment advocates is more along the lines of legislating away a basic human and constitutional right by way of cost and availability. The act of depriving those not of the right social and financial ‘status’ the simple act of defending themselves and their families.
It is a clever gambit however to try to turn the discussion in to a ‘big business, evil gun manufacturers’ debate, clever but erroneous.
And let’s not gloss over your inherent implication that firearm owners are all criminals waiting for our chance to break the law. I would suspect that far fewer of us are willing to sell our firearms and report them stolen then you would hope for.

[8. Instead of focusing on silly gun laws we should put a bounty on ‘aliens’. Well, they have rights under our Constitution too.]

And so do citizens of this Country no matter how you would like to deny it.
So you are more than ready to acknowledge the rights of criminals who violate our laws and our National Sovereignty but not the rights of law-abiding Americans as written in the Constitution?
Very interesting indeed.

Here are the problems I see with Microstamping. It has nothing to do with super-smart criminals collecting shell casings or anything like that.

Microstamping will not work because there will be no guns with Microstamping capability in circulation. Here is why.

1. As far as I understand, Microstamping capability will be required on new models of guns being introduced into the state.

2. California already has a safe pistol roster. There are thousands of guns on this roster that are currently certified for sale in the state of California. As long as gun manufacturers continue to pay the yearly fee to keep these guns on the roster, they can continue to be sold.

3. Since Californians will still be able to purchased 1000's of other guns without microstamping, there will be no reason for gun manufacturers to manufacture guns with Microstamping capability. Assuming a couple manufacturers actually decided to make guns with Microstamping capability, they would pretty much sit there on the shelf as no self-respecting gun owner would buy such a gun when others are available.

So as I said, there will be no microstamping guns in circulation, so it wont help solve any crimes.

ADITIONALLY, microstamping would only lead the authorities to the legal owner of a gun. The vast majority of law-abiding gun owners arent out there shooting people with a $800 1911 that they legally purchased at the local gun shop. True criminals dont go into gun stores and purchase their weapons through legal means.

I am having difficulty accepting the fact that this incoherent drivel came from someone who is supposedly educated, much less a legislator. Mr. Cavala, your response to comment posters is so full of the stuff that comes out of the north end of a south-bound bull, I'll just have to point-by-point it as you have (poorly) attempted to respond to the comment-posters.

"Legislation that would require “micro stamping” of cartridges from semi-automatic weapons (which typically eject their spent cartridges after firing) has egendered virulent criticisms from the usual suspects."

Of course it has, for the last 40 years+ gun control laws have not had any truly measurable effect. Why would any sensible person accede to such continued intellectual dishonesty?

"Their basic argument is the same they have used for decades. They posit a brilliant criminal who will think of ways to evade the laws, leaving only us dumb honest people to get entangled in a “legal web”, unconstitutional bureaucracy and so on.

Well, maybe criminals aren’t as ingenious as these soldiers of the 2nd amendment."

Ingenious?! No, they are not! It doesn't exactly take Dr. Evil, Lex Luthor, Colnel Blofeld, or any other criminal mastermind one can think of to get around this idiotic technique of trying to identify any particular firearm. It's a sad fact that, apparently any common uneducated criminal dufus can outsmart the best legislation that an educated elite politician such as yourself can muster.

"Let’s look at their arguments."

Yes, let's.

"1. Criminals will use guns without microstamping! Sure, initially, but by 2025 all semi’s will have microstamping. As will all ammunition."

Oh no they won't be microstamped! You just might be counting your chickens before they have hatched there!

"Maybe they’ll police their brass. Maybe some won’t. Maybe some dumb crooks will be caught that aren’t caught now?"

Maybe some innocent people will also be jailed or gassed too. Doesn't seem to bother you much.

"2.Revolvers don’t eject cartridges. Yes, and don’t fire as quickly as semi’s. "

As a technical point of fact (not that facts would stop you or anything), wrong, wrong, wrong. Revolvers are not uncommonly used by shooters to win speed-shooting contests/records. I can understand your suprise at this as one must see it to believe it.

"That’s probably why semi’s are the weapon of choice in 70% of the homicides? So killers revert to six shooters and some people live. What’s wrong with that?"

How on earth could you know that? Think about it, your buddies Ponce de Leon and the other idiot from L.A. somewhere so boldly stated that 45% of homocides are unsolved. Do you really think that it is believable to state that you are so sure that 70% of all homocides involve a semi-auto pistol? I don't.

"3. They’ll just collect casings at the range and throw them on the ground at the crime scene to fool the police. So let’s require shooters at the range to police their brass."

Ah, yes, MORE LAWS! Just what we need.

"(We all will after that knock on the door informing us that one of our casings was found as a result of a CSI)"

I should never, ever get such a knock.

"4. Criminals use stolen guns anyway. (or so second amendment advocates claim)."

Well, the police claim this also. Go figure.

"Well some do. Some also purchase guns from legal owners without going through the necessary transfer procedures."

Which is illegal ALREADY genius. How many arrests have been made for this?

"Micro stamping would allow the police to trace the weapon back to its’ original owner. That person might claim the weaponwas ‘stolen’ – but how many ‘stolen’ weapons will we allow him? If nothing else police could check out crimes in the area of the ‘stolen’weapon.

And we would have an empirical base from which to judge how common it is to have guns ‘stolen’, whether there isn’t a pattern of negligence on the part of the ‘crime victim’ requiring further storage, safety regulations, And so on."

And SO WHAT?! Last I checked you need proof BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT to convict. An "empirical database" will do squat because it doesn't constitute proof beyond a reasonable doubt of a crime. Do you plan to do away with that little impediment to your schemes too?

"5. Criminals will file off the microstamping. Some will."

Yes, let's ban files too.

"But many people turn to crime because of their unwillingness to work. Let’s not postulate criminals that are not only clever but also hardworking as a rationale to oppose reasonable efforts to restrict the use of guns in crime."

No let's just postulate the truth that laws don't slow them down at all. Do you really think a murderer worries about a gun law when murdering?

"6. This will raise the cost of ammo by as much as 50 cents, making it impossible for any but the rich to be shooters. Yeah, the rich and the brilliant criminals. The “poor” use their discretionary income to buy food not firearms."

Now be honest, did you really think that one out before typing?

"7. This whole effort is a nothing more than a political play through contribution by the “micro stamping industry”. Actually, it is a play by gun manufacturers who want to make your current firearm illegal so that you have to buy an expensive replacement and can’t resell your now obsolete weapon legally. Well, you can always find an illegal buyer – then claim it was ‘stolen’."

Rrrreaaaly? Which manufacturer's would that be? Please do tell. So you plan to make it illegal for someone to sell their firearms in the future too then? Interesting. Sounds like firearm owners are just criminals-in-waiting to you. Nice bit if bigotry, that.

"8. Instead of focusing on silly gun laws we should put a bounty on ‘aliens’. Well, they have rights under our Constitution too."

Absolutely 'aliens' have rights! The right to due process, representation, etc. My feeling is that my civil rights are only as safe as any one elses. However, the 'right' to be here? No. That's why they are called 'aliens' not citizens. Note that there are 'aliens' here legally (who I can't really remember anyone complaining about) and illegal aliens here illegaly. There is a difference. Truthfully, I find it totally baffling that you are sooo concerned about some rights but so determined to destroy others bit by bit. The constitution is not a Chinese take-out menu, you can't pick and choose which rights you decide to recognize today, no matter what they told you between 10 second bong hits at Berkeley. Perhaps you remember something about that in your oath of office?

Oh, and another thing. As I'm sure you've figured out by now this is California, and... well some people can be pretty shallow/superficial. It's not one of the place's more charming traits, but a fact none the less. That said, dude, that haircut makes you look like the kid on Family Guy or something. People MIGHT take you more seriously if you did something about it.....

A lot of these guys already said enough and hopefully you get the point.

Let's enforce the laws that are already out there and quit making more that target law abiding citizens and not criminals. Geez.

Bill, if you aren't afraid of reading some actual facts about microstamping you should really check out this scientific study out of UC, Davis. They conclude the technology is not yet ready for prime-time, that it takes on average about 2 minutes to remove a firing pin and remove the microstamping, and that it should not be implemented at this time. Do you consider the forensic experts to be part of the "usual suspects" as well?

http://www.ucop.edu/cprc/documents/howitt_manuscript_5407.pdf

Why don't you stop hiding behind the finger, Mr.Cavala and admit you hate guns and you want ALL guns taken from the hands of the Americans because you don't trust them? Please stop this micro-stamping mumbo-jumbo; the forensic experts are saying it won't work and it can be easily overcomed by criminals, yet you keep on sticking your head up singing "na na na nah, I can't hear you"
Just cut the BS, come clear and say it: only the police and the goverment should have guns.

Mr. Cavala, I think the others have pretty much torn apart your arguments, so I won't need to spend any time with that. All I'm going is say is that you're a tool, and your disdain for our Constitution is very disturbing indeed.

P.S. Your haircut amuses me.

Actually, he didn't even get the "rate of fire" comparison right. Revolvers car fire faster than any semi-auto. Don't believe me? Look up Ed McGivern. Or just take a look at any gatling gun.

illegals have rights too? to a speedy deportation and or jail fro breaking OUR laws coming here. Your points are so far off the mark they showed how much of gun grabbing lie-beral you are.

So Bill, if I'm a Second Amendment extremist, does that make you a liberal socialist elitist extremist? If my passion to protect and defend the Second Amendment from further infringement, makes me an extremist, what's your passion so we can label you an extremist. Perhaps you're passionate about letting every illegal alien that can climb the fence, stay. Does that by your definition make you an illegal alien extremist?

Getting back on track, I'm a veteran of the United States Army and a former police officer in California. I still have alot of friends in law enforcement and in case you didn't read my post on microstamping I will say this, I don't believe microstamping with solve one crime, just like taking names from people buying ammunition didn't solve any crimes. Firearms manufacturers don't support this bill, law enforcement doesn't support this bill and the California Attorney General's office doesn't support this bill.

Before you post trash like this, I suggest you get your facts straight. Putting out bogus information destroys what little credibility you have and makes you look foolish.

"2.Revolvers don’t eject cartridges. Yes, and don’t fire as quickly as semi’s."

This guy would disagree with you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ5Pts9dUdA

Eight shots in one second with a revolver. Then six shots, reload, plus six more shots in under three seconds with another revolver.

"So killers revert to six shooters and some people live. What’s wrong with that?"

But, umm, homicides only average two rounds per incident. Even if you do somehow stop them from using inexpensive, underpowered, and ubiquitous 9mm pistols, you're likely to get more people killed when they switch to more powerful .357 or .44 magnum revolvers..

Keep passing those California gun control laws. When amnestied illegal aliens become numerous to vote for California's secession from the U.S. and reunification of California with Mexico (taken by war in 1848), the rest of America will say, "Go! And take your electoral votes with you!"

They posit a brilliant criminal who will think of ways to evade the laws, leaving only us dumb honest people to get entangled in a “legal web”, unconstitutional bureaucracy and so on.

Do you have a driver's license? I would hate to think that someone who considers anyone capable of utilizing something as simple as a file a "genius" is entrusted with operating a two thousand pound piece of equipment with hundreds, if not thousands, of moving parts in public.

Every night I thank the good Lord that I do NOT live in the Republik of Kalfornia .

What an amazing display of ignorance on the subject. He may be good in front of a classroom, but he has minimal knowledge of either criminals or firearms. He should leave the discussion to the grownups and go teach a class on socialism somewhere.

You have a PhD? You write like a sixth grader with a new thesaurus. Your writing is juvenile, yet sprinkled with five dollar words ‘postulate’. Bill, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig! By your writing, I would have guessed your education level as high school with an emphasis in P.E. It is am embarrassment to Berkley that they would graduate you with a BA, much less a PhD.

more such legislation from the usual suspects.

There was a study on microstamping the last time special interests groups tried to help out a single microstamping business and push this law last year.

Even though the study done on microstamping showed that it is useless, there was an attempt to hide the report and push this law through.

Of course homicides are not solved, how many new laws regarding gangs are the lawmakers not pushing? (gang members vote democrat!) How many of these homicides occur in "sanctuary" cities? The gang members in these cities are not "documented", and if there are injuries in turf wars, the medical expenses become part of YOUR medical premiums.

Sounds great! Let's legislate California into the ground and trample the US Constitution while were at it.

Doesn't anyone in the Capital ever think about maybe increasing the funding for bigger prisons, more prisons, or increasing the penalties for the gun laws already on the books? Again we go for the easy target. The law abiding public. How much more duct tape, glue and patch jobs can our once great state handle?

more such legislation from the usual suspects.

There was a study on microstamping the last time special interests groups tried to help out a single microstamping business and push this law last year.

Even though the study done on microstamping showed that it is useless, there was an attempt to hide the report and push this law through.

Of course homicides are not solved, how many new laws regarding gangs are the lawmakers not pushing? (gang members vote democrat!) How many of these homicides occur in "sanctuary" cities? The gang members in these cities are not "documented", and if there are injuries in turf wars, the medical expenses become part of YOUR medical premiums.

Kest, Mumin, and BK have already done a great job of destroying any pretense to intelligence, patriotism, or even humor, so won't bother.

Did want to mention one thing tho. Not many states operate as stupidly as CA. I'm kinda thinking that the gun manufacturers will just cross CA off the distribution list, and that no other state -- excepting NY, NJ, MD, and DE possibly, will be stupid enough to follow CA's footprints.

I'm intrugued by this hair thing. I don't believe that is real hair. It looks just like a cheap "toop" to me. Makes me think everything about you is total pretense.

I agree with all the points made thus far (by the posters), but 6, 7, & 8 really erk me...

#6, As stated by others you are taking the ability away from "poor" families to defend themselves. But, your assumption that the "poor" criminals will choose food over ammo is completely flawed. I would venture a guess that the over whelming majority of the "poor" criminals that would want to use firearms illegally are getting their food paid for by the government..... so they don't have the dilemma of choosing between food & ammo.... but the poor hard working families trying to do what is right may have to choose between self-protection and nourishment.

#7, It IS a political play through contribution to the microstamping industry (the one and only, ID Dynamics and its owner Todd Lizotte) Under this law, firearm makers would either have to send their firing pins to ID Dynamics to have them laser engraved for an undetermined fee or they would have to purchase extremely expensive, patented equipment to do the engraving "in house" from who else? You got it, ID Dynamics

#8, You are 100% correct. Illegal Aliens have rights under our constitution too. But the one right they don't have is to BE HERE ILLEGALLY!

BTW, in #4 you again show your ignorance regarding this subject. Microstamping will not help law enforcement trace a gun back to its first owner anymore than the procedures they have now. It could help trace a shell casing back to the original owner if a casing is found, hence the law abiding citizens worried about people planting shell casings at crime scenes, at the very least trowing a handful of shells of the same caliber but from different guns to confuse police or to buy them some time. But if a weapon is found, the trace data held by the BATF can trace it back just as quickly.

Try telling Jerry Miculek that a revolver is slower than a semi-auto.

NICE RUG

Well, well, well - so he has a PhD in political science. What does that get you - other than into politics. It sure doesn't reflect the real world. And he now manages Democrat's election campaigns... Now if that's not a productive job - really producing something for society. To reiterate....

1. How do you "know" that ALL firearms and ALL ammo will have microstamping?
2. The fastest shooters use revolvers. Both revolvers and semi-automatic pistols fire ONCE per trigger pull.
3. What are you going to do about police officers using their personal firearms at public ranges? Oh, yeah... pass another law requiring policing of brass.
4. So the firearms is traced back to its original owner... In case you're not aware, there is due process... All you've found is the original owner - not the person who fired the firearm.
5. It'll take about 30 seconds to file the microstamping off the firing pin. Additionally, the test run by UC Davis (posted by others) showed there was enough wear after 2500 rounds to make the micrstamping unusable. BTW, I'm sure you're aware of the fact that many firearms recovered in crimes already hacve the serial numbers ground off.... and it'll take more time to do that than file the numbers off the firing pin.
6. How will it raise the cost of ammunition? The firearm still uses the same ammo. No change in cost. I don't know where you picked up this gem - it certainly wasn't based on your knowledge of firearms (or the bill).
7. One manufacturer has the patent, who claims that it'll work. But he's only done a few controlled tests - nothing that'll justify the expense.
8. Aliens have rights - but not to be here illegally.

So you're a 30-year veteran of Sacramento politics - definitely not someone that's had to WORK for a living, but just feeding at the public trough for over 30 years. No knowledge of manufacturing, engineering or industrial technology. No knowledge of law enforcement or forensics - just taking the pablum spewed forth by the anti-gun crowd and repackaging it as fact.

BTW, the only law enforcement support you see is by those politically-appointed police chiefs.... not the thousands of oficers on the street. Why don't you ask them - I guarantee you'll get an earful, because they're the ones that DO THE WORK.

You still haven't addressed one question... Since components (including firing pins) have to be replaced periodically, who'd responsible for maintaining the non-existent database to update each firearm's components' serial number?

BTW, you First Amendment extremists should understnd that the Founding Fathers never envisioned computers - so get your quill pen out.

The United States Consitution is much more than a single clause and to claim some kind of pure knowledge of its entirety and to use it only at the convenience of your wanting to walk around with your weenie/gun on your hip is hilarious.

Since you have such problems with "liberal socialist elitist extremists," you are free to leave the state and live where you'll feel right at home...a red state that allows anybody to carry open or concealed, there are no immigrants (those people), women stay at home and are in their place, only private services exist to the extent that you pave your own roads and put up your own street lights and sewage systems, and where free white people can lawfully monguls, savage Indians, and you know who else for a decent bounty...

Most importantly, where policy decisions are guided by conjecture, personal insults, gross ignorance, false assumptions, hatred, misinformation, xenophobia, homophobia, and groundless philosophical insights.

You won't be missed.

No Curtis, most of us here want to stay in California but that doesn't mean we need to accept ignorant arguments for legislation that should not exist. Most of us are pointing out the uselessness of this legislation and how Mr. Cavala's arguments are flawed. I don't see you refuting ANY of the points anyone is making - is it because you also have no clue on the subject?

Curtis: The 2nd Ammendment like the rest of the Bill of Rights should never become a Democrat vs Republican argument point. It boggles my mind that the very same people who oppose the PATRIOT ACT have no qualms about the erosion of the 2nd Ammendment.

It frightens me to think that one day, only Government agents will have firearms. I suspect that day, the rest of the Bill of Rights will also be thrown out the window.

This goofball reminded me of this quote: "I prefer the company of peasants because they have not been educated sufficiently to reason incorrectly." -- Michel de Montaigne

Interesting that of the 30 odd commentaries, only 5 had the courage not to hide under a pseudonym. I'll respond to those five:

Diane Amble wants no bureaucratic fumbling with the 2nd Amendment. Well, I accept the second amendment as an individual right. But like the 14th amendment, believe it's protections must give way to rational state regulation.

Ralph Warner doesn't believe microstamping will "solve one crime". He may be right - but it may give law enforcement a better handle on the stolen gun market than it does today. To me that makes the minor hassles imposed on law abiding gun owners worth the bother.

Ray Collins argues that my education keeps me from seeing what is obvious - presumably to the ignorant.
But he's not serious, just showing off his ability to quote French Aristocrats

Dave Cummings argues gun manufacturers will cross California off their distribution list, presumably for ideological reasons. Does he really believe gun manufacturers would forgo profit...for any reason?

Cummings also doubts the reality of my hair, joining Molan Lake in a devsstating "haircut critique".

If my hair were not real, would i have chosen such a wig? Sadly it is real, a fact of nature. Now how does that effect my arguments?

Nice to see you have the courage to use your name Mr. Cavala. As a public servant( I think you are anyway)maybe you ought to. You decide that 85% of the persons responding to your commentary aren't worth responding to because they aren't comfortable with posting their name along with their comments. Curious. Were they babbling lunatics that were so 'out there' that they are beneath your consideration?
It might be easy to understand those less courageous than yourself considering the Matthew Corwin case where a firearms enthusiast was ferreted out and arrested because he had the courage to post videos of his firearms on youtube or myspace. A whole laundry list of charges have been filed by the local DA against a law abiding citizen who happened to own firearms that might be illegal. 'Might be' is the key word here. On looks alone they meet all legal requirements. Thanks to our legislature and their habit of restricting our rights to possess firearms and our confusing laws they just might be able to find him in violation of something and really throw the book at him. All this because of the Va-Tech tragedy.

You believe the second ammendment is an individual right that must be governed by 'rational' state regulation. I guess rational is kind of subjective isn't it?
The whole Off List Lower issue is such a mess that tens of thousands of Californians could be in violation if your pal Mr. Nowick is to be believed.
I own one, but am unsure of what it is I can actually do with it. It collects dust in my safe. I guess I am a coward. How you must pity me.
The handgun certification is another 'rational' attempt at state regulation. It protects nobody and merely shakes down manufacturers for protection money.

The .50 caliber ban sure has cut down on the numbers of crimes committed by these 'terrorist' weapons I'd be willing to bet. By the way, Randy Barrett of Barrett Rifles fame refuses to service rifles owned by California Law Agencies. Dave Cummings was right on that one.

The attempts to ridicule you are childish and not worthy of your comments. Be aware that you are aligned with those that wish to disarm the law abiding of this state and we are disgusted at the lengths those in the legislature will go to do so.

quote: "Actually, it is a play by gun manufacturers who want to make your current firearm illegal so that you have to buy an expensive replacement and can’t resell your now obsolete weapon legally."

Pardon me sir, but are you a fool?

I have been a professional forensic scientist and "CSI" in law enforcement for the last 14 years. I have 2 forensic board certifications and an M.S. I don't mean to be crude but Mr. Cavala has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. It's a shame that this sham of an editorial was given any space at all. I could go over each and every point but what's the use? "Usual suspects" has done a pretty good job of it. I'll just say this. As with most restrictive gun laws, or any laws for that matter, the criminals won't obey them. Not one bit. They will find ways around this obstacle with ease. If you want to diminish crime or "save just one life" go after the criminals. Aggressively pursue them into the darkness and drag them into the light. Don't hide behind PC excuses. Prosecute them with half the effort you go after law abiding citizens and you'll see your crime statistics drop dramatically. Haunt them, chase them, and never surrender. That's what we, the real "veterans" of this war on crime, do.

1. Once again those who have the least experience in a subject know the most about it,(shooting). It's a shame that all of these experts are in "mouthpiece" positions to "inform" the masses.

2. You don't give a damn about crime or you would have done something useful instead of pushing the agenda of one party.

3. 29,000 gun laws and we still have crime? Maybe 29,001 will be the one. At least it gives pollies something to fill their day with, like a chew toy.

Why don't we microstamp or RFID peoples instead? That way we'ze could track the criminals and not worry about the gun or spent shells. This sho would be a lot easier. With RFID we could have all sorts of valuable information like real name, criminal record, etc. No deceiving the police man. I gotta aks, what wrong wit that?

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